NPR Democratic debate in Iowa, December 4, 2007

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By Bill | December 4, 2007 | Email This Post

On December 4, 2007, National Public Radio hosted a forum for the Democratic candidates for the 2008 Presidential nomination at the Iowa State Historical Museum. The moderators were three people from NPR: Steve Inskeep, Michele Norris, and Robert Siegel. There was no audience and there were no video cameras. Topics were limited to three subjects: Iran, China, and immigration. Some questions were submitted by NPR listeners. You can listen to a replay here.

Bill Richardson was invited to participate, but had to decline. He was attending the funeral of a Korean war soldier whose remains Richardson had a hand in repatriating.

I took the following notes as the debate unfolded. Errors of spelling and grammar almost certainly exist. I don’t claim these are exact quotes (though in many cases, they are) or represent everything any of the candidates said (in particular, the webcast cut out for me and had to be restarted on several occasions, so I almost certainly missed something.) However, I do believe it’s a fair summary of each candidate’s remarks. Any comments of my own are in italics.

Question highlights included:

In light of the recent intelligence report that Iran stopped its nuclear weapons program in 2003, do you agree with President Bush’s assessment that nothing about the Iran situation has changed?
A question about each candidate’s position on recent legislation declaring the Iranian National Guard a terrorist organization.
Historians refer to the Monroe Doctrine, the Truman Doctrine, and eventually they may analyze the Bush Doctrine. As President, what will your doctrine be?
Who has more leverage around the world, the United States (as the dominant global economy) or China (as the biggest emerging market?)
Should we restrict trade with China?
Would you prevent illegal aliens from going to work on the day you take office?

The candidates’ responses:

Joe Biden:

Bush has undermined our security and credibility and caused oil to go up by roughly $25 a barrel. This is like watching a rerun of Iraq. Iran is not a nuclear threat to the USA; they must be dealt with, but who’s going to trust us now?
The reason why we are disliked so much around the world is because we are trusted so little. Muslims around the world look at us and conclude we’re fighting a war on Islam.
The “Biden doctrine” will be clarity and prevention, not preemption.
We have much more leverage on China than they have on us. The idea of a country with 800 million people in poverty having leverage on us is preposterous. We don’t need new tariffs, we need to enforce existing laws.
We should hold China responsible for human rights at the United Nations. Doing so is the only way to get them to reform.
If England or France was acting like China is acting, we would be tough with them.
We need to have a conference with the rest of the world to rationalize our currencies.
There’s a moral distinction between providing a service [to illegal immigrants] and providing them with money to encourage them to come here.
The majority of undocumented people here are not Spanish-speaking, they’re from somewhere else and overstayed their visas. (One of the NPR hosts questions Biden’s numbers; Dodd says they’re probably both right.) Regardless, there’s an obligation on the part of an employer to confirm that any position has been offered to an American before offering it to other groups.
Immigrants will end up speaking English, just like all the other waves of immigrants have.

Hillary Clinton

Disagrees with Bush that the recent report on Iran doesn’t change anything. Bush should engage in diplomacy using both carrots and sticks.
There were other purposes for the resolution on the Iranian National Guard, but there is evidence that they support terrorist groups. Since the resolution passed - which did not authorize Bush to take action, in Clinton’s opinion - commanders on the ground have noticed progress in terms of reduced Iranian support for terrorists.
Hillary brought up previous statements by Obama and Edwards that they would consider action against Iran.
Clinton Believes linking her vote for the resolution declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization to some kind of support for Bush’s policy on Iran is “outlandish.”
Because we haven’t engaged in diplomacy, we don’t really know what’s happening in Iran.
The Hillary Clinton doctrine will be one of restoring America’s global authority through multilateral action and cooperation, and leadership on things like global warming.
Question: Do we need China more than they need us? We have more leverage, but we’re not using it thanks to the Bush administration. We need to get our financial house back in order and need to establish a strategic relationship with China. Fears that they may eventually gain leverage over us.
The Chinese will respect us if we call them out on their breaches of human rights, economic policy, etc.
We need to have English as a common unifying language. However, there are a number of Americans that speak other languages; there would be chaos if they couldn’t get services in a language they understood.
“There’s a lot of things I don’t know the answer to” - expect this to be YouTube fodder for at least the next year, longer if she wins.

Chris Dodd

Unilateral sanctions against Iran will fail. We must build international support, efforts at which are being hobbled by our military presence in Iraq.
Muslim dislike for America is longstanding. Our relationship with the Muslim world has historically been “a vacuum” that has bred misunderstanding. We’ve walked away from our role as an honest broker between parties.
Our relationship with China is not competitive, it’s adversarial.
In response to Edwards saying he would not be giving Christmas presents made in China, Dodd humorously said his family will be getting Christmas presents from Iowa, and eating Iowan food.
80% of the food we eat is imported, and only 1% is inspected.
People who knowingly hire illegal immigrants need to be held responsible, civilly and perhaps criminally. We’ve been a welcoming country for most of the history of our nation, but “any self-respecting” nation must control its borders.

John Edwards

Bush and the neocons (which Edwards always uses as a pejorative) have been on a march to possible war with Iran for a long time, perhaps since the “Axis of Evil” speech.
Edwards questions whether or not declaring the Iranian Revolutionary Guard fits in the context of diplomacy.
Edwards says that the Democratic candidates have a real division; only one (Clinton) voted for the resolution on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. The Iranian people are looking for a path, and we can provide that.
Muslims around the world don’t like us because of the “bullying, selfish” behavior of George W. Bush. The most important thing for America to do is to demonstrate to the world that we’re worthy of leadership.
The “Edwards doctrine” will be long-term, not ad hoc. We intend to lead, but respect other cultures and meet our responsibility to humanity.
The Bush administration has done virtually nothing to address the increasing competition with China. America is stronger today, and must deal with Chinese issues now.
Corporate America is driving American policy with respect to China, and America has a whole loses.
Bush should be telling Americans to “Buy Local” for a host of reasons, including the carbon footprint involved in manufacturing and transporting goods long distances.
Edward’s kids will not be getting Chinese products for Christmas.
Need to hold China accountable in the WTO and though our diplomatic strengths.
There is “confusion” on whether or not the presence of illegal immigrants in the workplace tends to depress wages overall. There have been conflicting studies, but there are “a lot” of things driving down wages in the United States. (My thought is that that’s how markets work, if someone offers a service for a lower price they’ll probably take business away from those demanding a higher price.)
The great issue facing the next President is to figure out what we can do to strengthen the middle class.

Mike Gravel

“Iran’s not a problem… never has been, never will be.” The intelligence community has “drop-kicked” the President of the United States. His hat’s off to the them for bravely doing so.
There is no evidence that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard supports terrorist organizations. But even if they did, Hamas and Hezbollah are elected bodies, what’s the problem with Iran supporting them if they chose to do so?
China’s defense spending is only 10% of America’s spending. Our interests should not always come first, the interests of human beings as a whole should come first.
There has to be a reason why we haven’t solved the illegal immigration question over the last few years. Aren’t we playing to the “nativists” and “crazies” by acting like it’s a problem that there are people filling jobs that need to be done? If there were no jobs, they’d go home. We’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
Immigration will change our society, and it will be a change “for the good.”
The American people are the solution, not their leaders.

Dennis Kucinich

I’ve been saying for the past few years that there’s no evidence that Iran had a nuclear weapons program. Bush has been able to convince some of my colleagues - Senators Obama, Clinton, and Edwards [that elements in Iraq are a danger.]
When people say “All options are on the table” with respect to Iran, they enable President Bush.
We need to reach out to Muslim nations and tell them that America is taking a different approach: no more unilateralism or preemptive first strikes.
We need to provide for the security of Israel, as well as allowing for a Muslim state.
Voted against trade with China, because the loss of manufacturing capability means the loss of our middle class.
“Either Buy America[n], or bye-bye America.”
On the question of individuals turning in illegal aliens, “We don’t encourage vigilantism,” These are economic refugees from NAFTA… cancel it. Provide a path to citizenship.
Would allow illegal aliens to continue to work while we provide them a path to citizenship.
Everyone who’s in the reach of this country has to be accorded Constitutional rights.
Our children need to learn languages. We need to prepare our children to merge with the world (not an exact quote, my paraphrase.) Sees everything as interconnected and one.
Kucinich worked in his quest to impeach the President and VP a number of times.
“I’m ready to be President. I’ve been right all along [on a number of issues.]”

Barack Obama

Iran is still a threat to their neighbors. Bush shouldn’t have started saber-rattling, but should move aggressively on the diplomatic front. Offer Iran WTO and other benefits in response to their willingness to work with us.
The suggestion that we structure our forces in Iraq in such a way to blunt the influence of Iran has a number of problems.
Listen to the Republican candidates debates and how they frame the issue of terror; Giuliani says that “they are coming here to try to kill you.” This doesn’t suggest to Muslims around the world that we’re interested in talking.
Close Guantanamo. Talk to our enemies as well as our friends.
The “Obama doctrine” will not override facts and reality. We have to view our security and prosperity as a common issue with other countries. If there are children in the middle east who cannot read, that is a potential long-term problem for us. Likewise Chinese pollution.
Our leverage relative to China is weakening. We must 1) get our own financial house in order. 2) The presence of China is exceeded only by the absence of America [in Africa], 3) Negotiate more effectively. America is still the dominant power, but we need to think 10-20-50 years from now.
China will modify it’s behavior if we are tough in our negotiations, because they must have access to our markets.
If China is manipulating their currency, we need to correct that imbalance, enlisting the help of the European Union to accomplish the change.
Q: Should citizens turn in illegal immigrants? A: We should not deputize the people to do the job that the federal government has failed to do. We should also hold employers responsible.
Believes that there “are circumstances” in which illegal immigrants are driving down wages. We should stop illegals from coming in, hold employers responsible, and give the existing illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. If they’re not legal, they shouldn’t be able to work.
Illegal immigration is worth talking about, but we have a “broken” legal immigration system as well.

Summary/Comments

This was my first audio-only debate.
NPR makes everyone sound better.
Except Mike Gravel. Speaking out in defense of Hamas, China’s not a worry because they spend less on defense on us (and I’m sure that’s a reliable number, the way the Chinese report their budget…) American interests shouldn’t come first, Iran’s not a problem… It’s like Gravel is TRYING to lose the race.
Again with the early attacks followed by peacemaking. Edwards/Clinton, Obama/Clinton, etc. The others are making a big deal out of Clinton’s vote to declare the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization.
Overall winners… a five-way tie? Nobody did anything to help or hurt themselves today, except for Gravel.
I recorded two other comments, but my attribution of them was garbled: “Illegal immigrants are “embedded” in our society. We will do grave harm to the fabric of our society [by turning this into an us-vs-them situation.]” and “The reason immigration is such a hot topic is because the economy isn’t working for most Americans.”
The format was advertised as more substantive than the TV debates. Did it succeed? My answer is a qualified no. There were more rounds of questions about the same topic, but none of the candidates went any deeper into their proposals than is usual. They’ll all good enough politicians to answer as minimally as possible, which is a shame.