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CNN South Carolina Democratic Debate, January 21, 2008
By Bill | January 21, 2008 | Email This Post
On January 21, 2008, just ahead of next Saturday’s Democratic primaries in South Carolina, CNN hosted a debate in Myrtle Beach featuring the remaining candidates for the Democratic Presidential nomination. The debate, taking place on Martin Luther King day, was sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus and moderated by Wolf Blitzer.
Hello everybody, and welcome to the latest of the debate summaries I’ve posted. A number of people have written in and said very nice things about them - plus one or two not so nice, but hey, everyone’s got an opinion, and besides… they’re outnumbered. At least one person even claims to be reading these summaries as a substitute for actually watching the telecasts… a high compliment indeed, although I think everyone should watch for themselves and then (hopefully) come here to follow up and comment. Regardless, I’m glad to have you here, so on with the evening:
I’m watching and blogging this as it happens, so my reactions are coming out as they happen with minimal editing - my apologies for any grammatical or other similar errors. I don’t claim that this represents everything the candidates said… but I’m not a shill for any of the candidates, and I believe this is an accurate summary of the major points from each of them. Any editorial comments or other thoughts I feel compelled to add will appear in italics.
One note: Due to technical difficulties, I missed the first half hour of this debate, so some points went unrecorded. My apologies.
Hillary Clinton:
- Says Obama “did the bidding” of the lobbyists during the fight for health care reform while in the Illinois legislature.
- Says that it’s legitimate to analyze candidate’s voting history to uncover where they actually stand.
- To Obama: “It’s very difficult having a straight-up debate with you because you never take responsibility for any vote.”
- Criticizes Obama for voting “present” in the Illinois legislature rather than a firm yes or no, on bills about protecting victims of sexual abuse and keeping predators away from schools.
- Thinks that it’s imperative that the government demand that all citizens have coverage. Universal health care is a “core democratic” principle for which she will go to the mat.
- Accused Obama of being all over the map on what he wants to do about health care, from supporting a single payer system to his current plan.
- Asked if she wants to “end the war in Iraq, or win it?” Clinton says that she wants to bring the troops home, starting within the first sixty days of her Presidency. Says that there is no military solution in Iraq; in terms of the surge, says “of course” if we add troops to certain areas we gain a certain tactical advantage, but that the goal is to achieve political solutions in Iraq and her plan for Iraq will send the message that the Iraqi government no longer has “a blank check.”
- Will “move as quickly as possible” in getting combat troops out of Iraq. “Hopes” to have them out within a year.
- Criticizes Bush for seeking permanent military bases in Iraq without Congressional approval, believes he is seeking to bind the next President to his failed policy in Iraq. Believes that such action involves a treaty that requires legislative approval, and that he won’t get it. (My comment: I take this to mean that Clinton doesn’t want a permanent base in Iraq. I wonder how she feels about the ones in Saudi Arabia, elsewhere in the Middle East, or elsewhere in the world? Is Iraq just such a hot spot that she wants to be completely done with it, or does she philosophically lean against that kind of foreign presence on a general basis?)
- Says that in the campaign, her voice is not the important one, but that she wants to collect the voices of all of America and takes them to the White House. Wants to make the American people feel like they once again have a President that cares about them.
- Believes that if McCain wins the Republican nomination, the general election will be framed in terms of a debate on America’s security, and says that she’s the strongest candidate to go head to head with him on that issue.
- Argues that while she may have the support of lobbyists, she isn’t beholden to them. Says that all the candidates are attached to lobbyists in one form or another. (My comment: she’s probably right, and it’s depressing that that’s true.)
John Edwards:
- People should take definitive provisions on strong issues. Asks Obama why he voted “present” so many times rather than yes or no. Obama responds that it’s standard procedure in the Illinois legislature to vote present to indicate that they were voting on a bill which a legislator had technical problems with. Says that Edwards is talking about around a hundred out of four thousand total votes.
- Edwards says his health care plan does not have provisions for illegal immigrants, but that he will strengthen the entire health care system to provide for things for emergency care.
- There are three different health care plans represented on stage, and Edwards and Clinton offer universal coverage, but Obama does not.
- Says Obama has taken more money than anyone from pharmaceutical companies, and Clinton has taken more money than anyone from insurance companies.
- On McCain’s support of the surge, says McCain is wrong is because the stated goal was that the surge was to lay the groundwork for real political progress, and says that there has been no meaningful progress… “a little,” but not much.
- Says that he’s the most aggressive of the Democratic candidates in ending the war in Iraq, including having all combat troops out of Iraq in the first year of his Presidency. Challenges the other candidates to do the same.
- Asked about what African Americans should consider when voting, Edwards says that he has no business telling them what they should and should not consider. However, says that in light of the fact that it’s MLK day, they should consider that on the issues Dr. King cared about - equality, poverty, etc. - that no other candidate can match his record.
- Is afraid that he occasionally sounds like a statistic, mentioning that 37 million people in the United States live in poverty - more than the population than California. Follows it up with an absolutely heartbreaking story about a woman having to choose between paying her heating bill and her rent.
- Says that he thinks John McCain will be the Republican candidate. Says that it’s important for Democratic voters to know that they’re not just voting in a primary, but they’re setting the stage for the battles with the Republican nominee next November. Believes that as a Southerner, he’s in the best position to go into rural areas that are traditionally hard for Democrats to win. Says. he’s the only Democratic candidate who polls higher than John McCain across the country.
- Believes that since McCain has spent so much of his career working on campaign finance reform that it would be unwise for the Democrats to present a nominee that has a poor record of taking money from lobbyists. Says that he will have no corporate lobbyists in his White House, asks Clinton to promise that she will do the same. Clinton’s response: she’ll have people concerned with America’s best interests in her White House. (My comment: translation… no, she won’t say that.)
- Says that the national security question can be won by transforming America’s image around the world from one of belligerence and fear to one of light and hope.
- Asked why MLK should endorse him, Edwards says he met MLK III, who was “very kind” about his efforts on behalf of poor people and of equality in America. Says that MLK would like him because he does the right thing, rather than things just to get him votes.
Barack Obama:
- We have to trust our leaders and what they say. If we can’t, we’ll never accomplish anything. Consistency matters. Truthfulness during a campaign matters (responding to Hillary Clinton.)
- During a flurry of attacks, says he feels sorry for Edwards because he’s not getting enough time. (My comment: this was clearly the last resort of a man who was feeling overwhelmed. He tried to pain it as funny, but it felt desperate.)
- Obama says that the victim protection bill Hillary is criticizing him for not voting on is one he actually sponsored.
- “I don’t mind having policy debates with Senator Clinton or Senator Edwards,” but what he does mind is spending weeks answering charges that are not factually accurate.
- On tough issues, Obama said he led the fight to reform a death penalty system in Illinois that everyone agreed was bad politics, as well as opposing the Iraq war and trying to keep juveniles out of adult criminal courts.
- Asked if his health plan covers illegal immigrants, Obama says “It does not.” Asked why, he said simply because we lack the resources.
- Appreciates the fact that Senator Clinton and Bill Clinton tried to pass health care reform in 1993, but thinks they went about it the wrong way, operating behind closed doors and failing to enlist the support of the American people.
- Believes that it’s clear “who’s carrying water” for the big pharmaceutical companies.
- Says that a mandate that all adults have insurance means that people will be forced to buy it, which means more government involvement at some point. Believes that the problem is not that people will not seek to have insurance without a mandate, but that people cannot afford it. Says that under his plan, anyone who wants coverage will be able to get it.
- Says the policy question is that if we’re not making health care affordable enough, “and we’re not,” if families we can’t afford health care the government is left in a position of taking money from them, leaving them in the situation of paying fines on top of not having health care.
- Says again that Clinton is misrepresenting his position on health care.
- Obama says he will be as careful at getting out of Iraq as we were careless at getting in. Says he will with withdraw at a prudent pace, which may mean 2 brigades a month, lasting into 2009. Suggests using the money saved for investing in infrastructure in South Carolina.
- Says that African Americans should vote for the best person for the job, not just the black candidate. However, Obama believes he IS the best candidate, and wouldn’t be running for the office if he didn’t believe so.
- Comments that the media has been very focused on race in South Carolina, but as he travels around the state he’s “absolutely convinced” that people want to move beyond old divisions, and that we shouldn’t “sell the American people short”
- Has a funny line where he refers to the race for the nomination as containing a black person, a woman… and John.
- Asked about the Toni Morrison quote that Bill Clinton was our first black President, says that he has an “enormous affinity” with the African-American community that is “well-earned.” (Hillary nods while he’s saying this.) Then says he has to investigate Bill’s dancing abilities before he can actually judge whether or not he’s “a brother.”
- Says he appreciates the fact that Clinton and Edwards were giving him a hard time, because that must mean he’s doing okay.
- Despite the fact that he’s arguing that the campaign not focus on race, he also believes that it’s important that we do not ignore the very real racial problems that still exist in America, citing particularly differences in treatment by the justice system, but also says that he expects that any President - whether female or a white man - will do the same.
- Believes that the “one good thing” Bush and Chaney have done is to give their party a very bad name, opening the door for larger Democratic victories.
- Said he’s “a proud Christian” and believes that the Democratic party has done a poor job of reaching out to evangelicals, allowing the far right to capture all of them without a contest.
- Argues that Clinton’s suggestion that she can go up against McCain on national security is a mistake, and what the Democratic candidate needs to do is not try to outdo him point by point, but to recast the debate away from the current fearful climate.
- Asked what endorsement MLK would give him, Obama says that MLK wouldn’t endorse any of them, but rather would ask that the American people hold them all accountable.
Summary/Comments:
- 8:35: Hillary’s attacking Obama pretty strongly. She’s turning nearly sideways to focus directly on him, rather than staying with the camera.
- 8:40: Edwards is laying into Obama pretty thickly too… has the former Edwards/Obama alliance against Clinton been torn asunder? Been replaced by a Clinton/Edwards pact? If that’s true, what was the carrot for Edwards?
- 9:33: Obama just suggested that he investigate Bill Clinton’s dancing ability as a measure of his “blackness.” I absolutely can’t believe he said that. Here’s a guy who goes on and on about getting over old divisions, and he resorts to a stereotype to earn cheap points. I understand it was an attempt at humor, but it was a terrible choice. I generally like Obama, but I hope he has to answer questions about this one tomorrow.
- 9:43: End of the debate approaching, and all the candidates are laying off the infighting and going all anti-Republican, trying to end on a high note and erase people’s memory of the earlier ugliness.
- 9:48: Without mentioning Clinton directly, Edwards is bringing up the theme of electability, saying he’s the candidate in the best position to win against the eventual Republican nominee. I think he’s right, but I also think that won’t help him win the nomination.
- 9:54: Obama and Clinton offer their own polls showing they’re the most electable.
- Hillary Clinton said that she’s the one best positioned to fight John McCain on the question of national security… well maybe. That statement is right as far as it goes, she probably is the best of the three. As far as WINNING that particular debate against him, though… as capable as Ms. Clinton is, she’s smoking crack if she thinks she can go up against McCain on that issue. The ONLY argument she might be able to win on is that he’s for continuing the war in Iraq and she’s not… and what side of that question the voters come down on is up in the air.
Okay, the debate is over, final thoughts:
- I really regret missing the first 30 minutes of this one, the fur was flying. Clinton was definitely in attack mode. Her resurgence has her in a position to try and finish off Obama in the minds of the rest of America before the large numbers of African-Americans in SC add their votes to the mix and catapult him back into the lead, and she’s taking the opportunity. I wonder if we’re seeing the work of some of the old Bill Clinton advisers she’s recently added to her campaign.
- Winner: This was almost two debates. Clinton scored during the first punch/counterpunch half, while Obama did well at the end after things cooled down. But overall winner? I’d say Edwards. He’s finally hit his stride in the last couple of debates, but it’s too late to do him any good.
- Loser: Clinton. She took her best shot, and won’t slow Obama down in South Carolina.
That’s it for tonight… see you next post.
