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Liveblogging the January 24, 2008 MSNBC Republican Debate
By Bill | January 24, 2008 | Email This Post
On January 24, 2008, MSNBC is hosting a debate between the five remaining candidates for the Republican Presidential nomination in Boca Raton, Florida… five days before the Florida primary, which promises to decide several of the candidates fates. I’m watching and blogging the debate as it happens. I’m an undecided voter, not a shill for any candidate, so I hope this comes across as an honest and fair picture of what the candidates say. I won’t be able to resist commenting along the way, so when I do you’ll see my comments in italics to distinguish them from the actual proceedings. Please join in and comment along the way… honest opinions welcome, flames and trolls are not.
This be coming out with minimal editing as the event happens - my apologies in advance for any grammatical or other similar errors. I don’t claim that this will represent everything the candidates said, but I believe it will be an accurate and fair summary of the major points.
8:56: Should be an interesting one tonight. You’ve got a couple of powerful and desperate guys watching the Presidency slip away. Giuliani has ignored conventional wisdom by abandoning Iowa and New Hampshire and staking everything on Florida; polls say that hasn’t worked and he may lose badly. Romney has fallen behind McCain and must make up ground quickly before Super Tuesday or he’s out, too. Huckabee is still holding in there, but in my opinion now he’s playing for a VP spot at best; it’ll be interesting to see if he either plays peacemaker or perhaps attacks Romney on McCain’s behalf. And, of course, Ron Paul is still around to liven things up.
9:00: Brian Williams and Tim Russert are the moderators again.
9:00: Trivia bonus: “Boca Raton” supposedly mean’s “Rat’s Teeth” or “Rat’s Mouth.” I bet the chamber of commerce doesn’t advertise that.
9:01: Away we go…
9:01: Brian Williams tells us that the debate usually runs two hours, but that at the mutual requests of all the campaigns this one has been cut to 90 minutes. C’mon, guys, you can do better than that.
9:02: Brian Williams asks Mitt Romney if he’s disappointed the tax relief plan announced today doesn’t more closely follow his plan. Romney says there are some good things in it, but his plan had some benefits that the plan from Washington. The key thing is to grow jobs, not just get checks into the hands of consumers. We have a housing/mortgage crisis that has spilled out into the larger economy, and expanding the ability of FHA to help out homeowners is important.
9:05: McCain is asked if he will vote for the plan announced today, and says he will. Asked if he’s disappointed that the bill does not make the current Bush tax cuts permanent, says that he thinks it’s important to make them permanent so that when they expire America doesn’t experience a de facto tax increase. Also says we need to cut the corporate tax rates to make them comparable to other countries around the world. Also mentions a need to reduce spending.
9:07: Giuliani says that the current tax relief plan is fine as far as it goes, but that it doesn’t do enough. Believe his plan would have provided more benefits. Believes we are running businesses out of the United States by over-regulation, like Sarbanes-Oxley. Cites a worrying report that came out recently that London may surpass New York as a financial capital. (Funny, In another debate, I remember Giuliani being asked that very question and responding on the lines of “Not gonna happen.”)
9:10: Tim Russert asked John McCain about a quote that said he “still needs to be educated” on economic matters. McCain denies the quote, and says he will stack his economic record up against that of any other candidate.
9:11: Tim asks Mike Huckabee (in an obvious attempt to prompt fireworks) if he trusts Romney on taxes. Huckabee replies that it doesn’t matter what he thinks, but whether or not the American people trusts either of them. Goes on to suggest an enormous road project from Florida to Maine as a long-term stimulus project. (Mentions how terrible it is that thousands of Floridians are stuck in traffic every day… he’s absolutely right, but it still feels like obvious pandering.)
9:12: Having failed to provoke Huckabee, Tim Russert asks Romney whether or not he trusts McCain, and Romney says he respects everyone on the stage. Says with the tough economic times we need someone who has the private sector “in his DNA,” and that he is that person.
9:15: Still trying, Russert asks McCain whether or not Romney’s raising fees as Governor amounts to the same thing as a tax increase. McCain says that the people who had the pay the fees probably felt that there was no difference. McCain promises to stop pork-barrel spending.
9:16: Brian Williams asks Ron Paul whether government should have any role in stimulating the economy. Paul says they do, but that it consists of lowering taxes, getting rid of regulations, and devising a monetary policy that makes sense. Says the economy and foreign policy are inseparable; we’re spending ourselves to oblivion. Says nobody else on the stage suggests cutting anything overseas. Doesn’t believe that we need spending cuts at home, but rather a freeze and tax cuts. Mentions that he was “one of three” that voted against Sarbanes-Oxley.
9:19: Williams asks Giuliani if there’s something fundamentally un-American about financial institutions soliciting money from overseas to solve their economic crises. Giuliani says that America is part of a global economy, and that as long as the proper discovery is done he’s in favor of free trade, as long as you make sure there’s no ulterior motive. Americans should be thinking about how much we can sell to the world, and how can we invest in them as they invest in us?
9:21: Russert mentions that a recent survey indicates that Americans believe the Democratic party would be better for the economy and cites a number of statistics, then asks John McCain why people should continue Republican parties. McCain replies that all you have to do is watch their debates; it’s clear that they will increase spending and further weaken the economy. Criticizes the President for allowing bills to pass that include poor spending choices. McCain promises to veto such bills. Says that having watched the Democratic debates all he’s seen is that they promise to tax and spend their way out of the current problem.
9:24: Same question to Mike Huckabee. Says that if we had paid proper attention to the people at the bottom of the economy rather than people at the top, we could have seen the current problems coming a long time ago, and promises to do just that.
9:25: Russert asks Mitt Romney whether or not he will run away from his record on economic policy; Romney responds that he will run on an anti-Washington record. Cites the failures in promises from Washington over the years, covering economics, ethics, immigration, and more. Blames both parties for the failures, and says that since he isn’t part of Washington he can do better.
9:25: Rudy Giuliani says he has the experience of turning around the seventeenth largest economy in the world, and can do so again.
9:26: Ron Paul believes the party needs to run on traditional Republican principles, says he has been waving a warning flag over tax and spending increases for years but to no avail, and now we’re on the verge of bankruptcy.
9:29: A questioner from the audience says that some military leaders believe our forces are too overextended and current efforts can’t be sustained. John McCain says he knows of no military leader who thinks our military is on the verge of collapse and tells the questioner flat out “You’re wrong.” Believes that the solution to the Middle East is victory, not “waving the white flag” as Senator Clinton proposes. (McCain going after Clinton… good move for him. He’s acting like the front runner.)
9:31: Williams asks Romney about the troop levels and resources available to the military. Romney proposes adding 100,000 troops to the military, and also says we must offer enlistees a better deal if we are to attract people to join up. Romney says it’s a shame all the Democrats are bent on pulling out of Iraq at all costs, says that we can’t afford to “turn Iraq over to Al Qaeada.” Suggests that’s “audacious” that the Democrats are suggesting their control of Congress, rather than the blood and sweat of American servicemen, is responsible for the recent signs of turnaround in Iraq. (My comment: he’s right on that last point.)
9:35: Russert asks the candidates that, given polls that say removing Saddam Hussein was not worth the price we paid (applause from the audience here), if they will go to the American people and tell them that it was worth the effort. McCain: yes, Giuliani: yes, Paul: no, it was “very wrong”, (more audience applause) Huckabee: yes, Romney: yes. McCain and Romney both say the war wasn’t the problem, but that management of it was. Giuliani tells Russert that it’s interesting that he opened the question with a poll, saying that when polls showed Americans were in favor of the war, Hillary Clinton was in favor of it as well.
9:43: The candidates get to question each other now.
9:43: Romney asks Giuliani: as we compete with China, what kind of relations do we need with them such that we can ensure there is a level playing field and that American industry is strengthened, not weakened. Giuliani says we must work with China to protect intellectual property, the rule of law, and the ability to sue for grievances. We must protect ourselves from tainted products, but in the end we should view China as a market with huge potential, and we should ask what we can sell them. Giuliani suggests we help them with energy independence and health care.
9:46: McCain asks Huckabee about his support for the fair tax, and asks Huckabee how he responds for the criticism that a national sales tax is unfair to lower income Americans. Huckabee responds that the FairTax has gained such attention because we’re all sick of the current system (Quotes Dr. Phil: “How’s that workin’ out for ya?”) Says that in fact, the poor come out the best of all, because the FairTax gives people a “prebate,” which brings them back up to the level of poverty. Says all income brackets will benefit from the FairTax, and that it will even apply to the underground economy, so that even “Drug dealers, pimps, prostitutes… non-Republicans” will have to pay tax.
9:49: Russert asks Huckabee how a 30+% sales tax is better for Americans who are generally in far lower tax brackets. Huckabee responds that when you layer in all the fees and taxes it takes to build a product, Americans are actually currently paying about 33%.
9:50: Ron Paul asks John McCain if he would continue past Presidents habit of taking economic advice from [some group whose name quite frankly escaped me] or at least provide more visibility of the meetings. McCain said that he would lean primarily on his Secretary of the Treasure for economic advice, along with other advisers, and that of course more sunlight in government dealings is generally a good thing.
9:52: Mike Huckabee asks Mitt Romney if he supports the Second Amendment, the Brady gun restrictions, or a ban on assault rifles. Romney responds that he does support the right of the people to bear arms whether for hunting or protection purposes, and that he also would have signed the assault weapons ban that recently crossed President Bush’s desk, but that he’s currently in favor of enforcing existing laws rather than passing new legislation.
9:56: Giuliani asks Romney if he now favors a national catastrophic insurance fund, since the last time it came up Romney said he wasn’t sure and would consult with the insurance industry. Romney says he now is, although it would have to be such that not all Americans were responsible for paying the tab for people in high-risk areas. Giuliani is in favor of it, as well. McCain is not in favor of it, but says that the same thing can be accomplished by working with the insurance companies rather than setting up a new federal bureaucracy.
9:59: Tim Russert asks Giuliani why he’s against a cap on greenhouse gas emissions. Giuliani says that he prefers incentives for alternative energy, including nuclear, wind, solar, hydroelectric, clean coal, and more. Calls for a man-on-the-moon level of effort to gain energy independence. Is afraid caps would only crush American industry while China and India produce unlimited amounts of greenhouse gasses.
10:01: John McCain says he’s in favor of a cap-and-trade system that allows greenhouse gas emitters shift emissions among themselves, giving them time to slowly reduce emissions without destroying them economically. Believes climate change is real and dangerous, but says that even if we’re wrong about it, we will at least leave our children a cleaner world.
10:06: Back to regular questions.
10:06: Brian Williams asks Giuliani what’s happened to his campaign, citing a huge drop in popularity from the beginning of the race. Giuliani says he’s done a good job of getting the other candidates overconfident, and that he expects to do well in Florida and beyond. Likens himself to the New York Giants last Sunday, saying he will surprise everyone and win.
10:08: Williams asks John McCain about the fact that he traditionally doesn’t get along well with the conservative wing of the party. McCain points out that he got the majority of Republican support in the states he already won, and said that conservatives know he’s strong on issues they care about, including terrorism, climate change, and the security of Israel. Says the thing that he has most going for him is that his maverick record shows that he always puts his country ahead of politics.
10:10: Williams asks Mitt Romeny how he will run against both Bill and Hillary Clinton in November should he gain the nomination. Romney says Hillary is “exactly what’s wrong with Washington,” and is out of step with the American people. Suggests that the idea of Bill Clinton sitting around the White House with nothing to do is a bit disturbing.
10:12: Russert asks Mitt Romney how much of his own money he has spent on the campaign. Romney says he will report his expenditures when required by law, and not a minute before, citing not giving his candidates any competitive information. Romney says his contributions to himself are proof to the American people that he doesn’t owe any large donors any favors. Denies he’s trying to “buy” the state of Florida.
10:14: Williams cites a poll that says that 44% of Americans say that a Mormon will have a hard time bringing America together. Romney says he doesn’t believe that Americans will deny anyone their vote based on religion when the founding fathers said that is “as un-American thing as you can think of.” Goes on to attack Hillary Clinton for taking her ideas from “the Europe of old.”
10:16: Russert brings up an old survey in which Ron Paul suggests abolishing social security. Paul says that yes, he does want to abolish it, at least for the young. Paul says he would continue to take care of those dependent on it, but would let younger people out of it because it won’t work for them anyway. Says that it’s ironic that he’s being asked the question when he’s the only one who has a program with a chance to actually help the elderly.
10:18: Russert asks Huckabee to specify exactly what he will do to save Social Security. Huckabee takes a second for an aside in which he mentions Romney’s five sons, and says that the best thing that can happen for them is if Huckabee is elected President so they can inherit a better America and Romney’s money, too. (The attempt at humor fell flat, unusual for Huckabee.) Huckabee goes on to say he can fix Social Security with the benefits of the fair tax.
10:20: Russert asks Romney if he will “do what Ronald Regan” did to save Social Security. Romney responds that he will not raise taxes, if that’s what Russet was asking. He says there are at least three things that can be done. 1) establish personal accounts that will allow individuals to invest in something with a higher yield than government bonds, 2) calculate increases based on CPI rather than wage index, and 3) push out retirement age.
10:22: A questioner from the audience asks since Giuliani would require that immigrants learn English, why he’s airing an ad in Spanish. Giuliani says that he does support an English requirement for citizenship, but that as long as there are populations of voters out there who speak something else, he’s perfectly comfortable addressing them in that language. (My comment: that was a softball question…)
10:24: Russert asks Giuliani why Cubans get special wet-foot, dry-foot treatment in immigration law. Giuliani cites Castro’s forty year history of dictatorship and says the exception is appropriate.
10:26: Questioner from the audience asks Huckabee if he agrees with Chuck Norris’ statement that John McCain is too old to be President. Huckabee humorously replies that he didn’t disagree with it when he was standing next to Chuck (Okay, Huckabee’s got his funny back) but that he thinks McCain’s age is not an issue.
10:27: McCain says that since Sylvester Stallone has endorse him, maybe he’ll send Sly over to take care of Chuck. (My money is on Chuck, BTW.)
10:28: Williams cites a negative article from the New York Times and asks if Giuliani is still the person depicted. Giuliani says that no, he’s not, and that he never did anything the New York Times approved of during his tenure as President, and that if he had he wouldn’t be considered a conservative.
10:30: Williams asks Romney about the perception that he changes his positions frequently. Romney says that he doesn’t worry about making friends with politicians, and that anyone who wonders where he stands need only look at his record as Governor.
10:31: Williams asks McCain if the rumors that he has an anger problem are true. McCain says they are not, and mentions that his many friends on both sides of the aisle could testify to that fact. Goes on to say nice things about all the other Republican candidates, particularly Giuliani who he calls “an American hero.”
10:33: Williams asked Huckabee about a quote about his religious outlook making the speaker “queasy”… Huckabee says that he’ll just have to deal with it, and if that voters want a candidate who doesn’t believe in God they should look elsewhere.
10:34: Williams asks Ron Paul if he will depart from the Republican party if elected, given his Libertarian streak. Paul responds that he’s been elected ten times as a Republican, and that the real worry should be that the party is abandoning its core principles. Says that the Republican party ought to embrace the people he’s bringing into politics rather than being afraid of them.
10:36: Williams reminds everyone that the debate will re-air at midnight Eastern tonight.
All right, the debate is over… last thoughts:
- Winner: Romney. He was the only standout.
- Loser: Giuliani. It’s over.
- Others: McCain probably didn’t hurt himself, but I doubt he won over many new voters. Huckabee was a nonfactor. Ron Paul was… Ron Paul.
- Mistakes: McCain needed to go after Romney much more aggressively, even if by proxy through Giuliani or Huckabee. This was his chance to finish Romney off, and he didn’t do it. Romney rattles easily.
- Russert: I’ve always kind of liked Russert, but I ended up with a negative impression of him tonight. It sounded like he was being needlessly sensationalistic tonight, trying to start a disagreement.
- Not that we couldn’t have used a disagreement to liven things up… it was a long ninety minutes.
That’s it for tonight… see you next time.
Topics: Debates, Republicans |