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Liveblogging the February 21 CNN Democratic Debate
By Bill | February 21, 2008 | Email This Post
At 8pm Eastern time tonight, CNN will host a debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama from the University of Texas at Austin. Join me here as I live-blog the festivities, read my comments and add your own.
See you tonight!
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All right, here we are, minutes before the debate. My sense is that Hillary is an extremely desperate position tonight, and what with the shakeup of her campaign recently, we ought to see some fireworks. Losses in Ohio and Texas would finish her, and I don’t think she’s taking the prospect of losing particularly well. We’ll see.
The usual disclaimer: I don’t claim to have captured everything, but I don’t think I’ve grossly misrepresented anything either. My comments are in italics.
8:00: Here’s Campbell Brown. Where’s Wolf tonight? Like he has something better to do?
8:01: Clinton and Obama come out to applause worth of an NBA arena. Then, CNN mysteriously decides to bring the energy down by diverting the candidates to take pictures with local media for five minutes. Great opening, terrible follow through. Amateurish. Lively crowd tonight, though.
8:05: First opening statement by Hillary Clinton, who lost the coin toss. She tells us about how much she has in common with Texans, something she learned in her “first political job” registering voters 36 years ago. She goes on to mention two of her heroes, Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards. All I really know about Richards is her “poor George” speech from the 1988 campaign. Clinton tells us that she offers “a lifetime of experience” and “proven results” to fix healthcare and veteran’s affairs, and transfer “$55 billion” that she says George W. Bush has diverted and return it back to the middle class.
8:09: Obama begins speaking, calling it “a great honor” to once again take the stage with Hillary Clinton; I guess it would have been bad form to say that if he’d known he would be winning at this point, there’s no way he would be doing it. While Hillary went big-issue in her opening statement, Obama takes the personal anecdote route and mentions a handful of individuals he’s met who have to choose between health care and their mortgage, lost their jobs to China, or had their child killed in Iraq. He says that the problem with America is not that we’re lacking in good ideas, but that Washington has become the place where “good ideas go to die,” and cites lobbyists among other problems (expect a follow up on this later, given Clinton’s history with that crowd.) He also quotes Barbara Jordan: “What people want is an America as good as its promise” and says he’s running to make that come true.
8:13: First question to Hillary Clinton, on whether or not she would be willing to meet Fidel Castro’s successor to “get the measure of the man.” Hillary says as President she would be ready to reach out to and work with a new Cuban government, but only once it has show that it intends to change direction. If Cuba moves towards freedom and democracy the US would welcome that, and as President she would look for opportunities to encourage that, but there has to be evidence that change is happening. Would not meet with Raul Castro until that happens, and then only after negotiations.
8:16: Obama says that he would consider meeting with the Cuban leader without preconditions, but that he would insist on an agenda that includes freedom of the press and human rights. As a show of good faith he would ease restrictions on remittances and travel for people with family in Cuba.
8:19: Clinton responds and says she agrees that the US ought to engage in diplomacy with everyone, but she feels that it’s inappropriate for the President to offer to meet directly until lower level contacts had taken place, and after a lot of preparatory work has taken place.
My take is that Obama had the better answer on that topic, and Clinton basically softened her own stance and reiterated Obama’s position with her response.
8:21: Obama adds that he thinks Clinton’s approach that the President should not get directly involved is symptomatic of the problems with America’s diplomacy in its current form, in that it tells the world that we hold ourselves above them.
8:22: Obama offers his opinions on the economy: Remove the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and redistribute them to the middle class; for example, if you make $75k or less, he gives you a thousand dollars back on your taxes. Cites sending $1 billion a day to oil-producing countries when we could develop green power sources, growing jobs at home. Thinks that no economic change can take place without addressing the special interests (Yep, there it is again)
8:27: Clinton says she’ll get rid of the tax cuts, and certainly not give “a penny” to anyone who sends jobs out of Texas or Ohio (bit of pandering, there) and that she’ll enforce current trade agreements, including putting standards in place to exclude products with lead paint or poison pet food. She’s been saying “for nearly a year” that the government must crack down on mortgage lenders, but she also believes that there should be a moratorium on home foreclosures. She would also freeze interest rates for five years (Wow, that strikes me as… exactly the kind of thing Hillary’s critics say she would do) to protect people with adjustable rate mortgages. She offers a quick three point plan to fix the economy: 1) Invest in clean energy, 2) rebuild infrastructure, 3) “End George Bush’s war on science” (Taking a note from Bill Clinton here, going with the laundry list. It’s effective, though, and she refuses to yield when her time is up.)
8:35: Hillary Clinton is asked about the border fence, for which she voted in 2006. She quickly says Obama voted for it as well, but “having been along the border over the last week or so” she believes there’s a “smart way to protect our borders and a dumb way to protect our borders.” She learned last night that the University of Texas at Brownsville would have its campus split by such a fence (Note to self: they’ve got property in Mexico?) She says she would have a review and consult with people who live along the border before making a decision. She suggests technology and “smart fencing” rather than a physical barrier, along with enough people to control it. Thinks that the federal government filing eminent domain to build the border fence is ludicrous. (My comment: if the national border isn’t subject to eminent domain then what the hell is?)
8:40: Obama generally agrees with Clinton, and thinks technology is a better solution. Faults the Bush administration for mishandling the issue. Goes on to talk about the current illegal immigrant population and its relation to the constant fresh influx of new people, and that the whole thing must be addressed comprehensively. Suggests that we immediately pass legislation to allow children of illegal immigrants who “have grown up as Americans” access to higher education, and says he will make it a top priority.
My comment: I’m not really happy with either of those answers, but particularly dislike Clinton’s. Leave it to the people on the border? Sure, their input is important, but this is an issue with national scope and one that must be decided as such. For her to suggest otherwise is out-and-out pandering for Texas votes.
8:42: Clinton is asked if there’s a downside to the United States becoming bilingual, in reference to the growing Hispanic population. She says it’s great for kids to learn a second language, but believes its important that English is our national unifying language, but also believes that English should not be made the official language of the United States.
8:44: Obama thinks its important that everyone learn English as part of the process of binding ourselves together as a country, but believes that students should all learn a second language.
8:50: Clinton is asked about her recent accusation that Obama is all speeches and no substance. She responds that she and Obama have a lot in common, and believes that they have both run a mostly “positive” and “civil” campaign, but that it’s important that they each tell voters “how they see the world differently.” Clinton says she offers solutions, and that she was “somehwhat amused” to see an Obama supporter recently asked to name an accomplishment of his and her couldn’t. She says that yes, “words matter” (Does that mean she’s a plagiarist, too?) but that actions are more important.
8:54: Obama responds by saying that he also thinks that actions are more important than words, and goes on to cite examples from his “20 year” history of public life, including health care and ethics reform. Criticizes Hillary for recently saying “let’s get real,” since the implication is that his supporters are somehow deluded. Says that his supporters, including every major newspaper in Texas, perceive reality very well, but know that the problem is not just a failure to put forth policy positions. Says that the President must inspire people if we are to overcome the gridlock in Washington.
(Obama wins another exchange.)
8:57: Obama is asked about the accusations from the Clinton campaign that he’s plagiarized a few lines in some of his speeches. He thinks it’s “silly” to suggest he could plagiarize from someone who’s a co-chair of his campaign, who actually suggested he use the line. Admits that some of his speeches “are pretty good” but that they also have substance: including tax relief, college tuition, and ending the war in Iraq.
9:00: Clinton responds that if your candidacy is going to be about words, they should be your own words. Calls Obama’s speeches not change you can believe in, but change you can Xerox (boos from the audience…. Hillary looked mean-spirited on that response, she would have done better for herself to play nice.) Salutes Obama for bringing people together, but says that it only matters if you bring people together around specific goals. Among other things, Hillary says that Obama doesn’t offer universal health care, and that he was reluctant to solve the mortgage crises, but even George W. Bush has realized something must be done (Odd move, aligning herself with George W. Bush.)
9:03: Obama defends his health care plan, saying Hillary liked it just fine when Obama trailed her by 20 points in the polls. Salutes Clinton for her health care efforts in 1993-1994, but says that she made a fundamental mistake by acting behind closed doors, making it impossible to come to a consensus. Promises he will run things differently.
9:11: Clinton is asked whether or not she feels Obama is ready to be commander-in-chief; she says that she will let the voters decide, but that she would prefer to talk about health care. She says the fundamental problem with Obama’s plan is that makes purchase of health care voluntary, and that means it will fail.
9:12: Obama responds that Clinton’s “mandate” is not a mandate on government, but a mandate on you to purchase it. Cites Massachusetts as an example of mandate failure, where people have ended up both without health care and also facing fines for not having it.
9:13: Clinton cites Medicare and Social Security as mandated plans that work (Don’t we keep hearing about how they’re constantly on the point of collapse?)
9:16: Clinton is asked again about whether or not Obama is ready to be commander-in-chief. She doesn’t answer, but says she’s very qualified for the job by virtue of her having represented the United States around the world for years. Says she is “prepared and ready on day one” to be commander-in-chief.
9:18: Obama’s response: “I wouldn’t be running if I didn’t believe I was prepared to be commander-in-chief.” Says that his first job will be to protect the American people, and that includes having the strongest military in the world. Obama believes that part of that is using our military wisely; cites his vote against the Iraq war in what he believes was the most important foreign policy decision in a generation, and mentions that Clinton voted for it. Says that his judgment on every important foreign policy decision over the last several years has been more sound than has Clintons (Iraq, Pakistan, etc.) (Should he have mentioned his stance on Pakistan? An opening for Hillary, we’ll see if she takes it.)
9:22: Clinton is asked if Iraq is better off now than before the surge. She responds that part of the reason for the surge is to give the Iraqi government room to take the steps that it needs to take; of course more troops produce a tactical advantage, but the real purpose of the surge has failed. Says that she will being withdrawing our troops from Iraq within 60 days. Does not believe that it’s in the interests of America or Iraq that we continue to be there.
9:24: Obama believes that it is “indisputable” that violence has been reduced by the surge, but that what we’re seeing is a tactical success being imposed on a large strategic blunder. Obama says that it will be easier to argue with McCain that the whole war was a mistake to begin with than whether or not the surge is working. Believes we’re neglecting the rest of the world because of our focus on Iraq. Obama goes on to attack John McCain on his statement that we might be in Iraq for a hundred years, and on the economy.
(I think Obama’s being a little misleading about what McCain was saying… but Obama’s attacks are very effective. I really cringe to think what McCain will look like up on a stage with Obama; I don’t want to sell him short, but I really wonder if he can hold his own.)
9:32: Obama is asked about earmarks, and says that he will gladly disclose who all his earmarks are for (actually, he says “we” … what is it about senators that they always end up referring to themselves in the third person?)
9:33: Clinton is asked whether or not McCain has a better record on pork-barrel spending, and she says no, since he voted for the Bush tax cuts and the Iraq war (That’s completely beside the point, but you go on, Hillary.) Says the larger question is who can get us back on the path to fiscal responsibility, and that what we were doing before George W. Bush (aka during the last Clinton administration) was working.
9:36: Clinton is asked whether or not superdelegates should vote according to the popular vote and responds that she’s not concerned about that, that it will all work itself out. (Pardon my French, but that’s outright bullshit. She’s pulling every string she’s got to secure the superdelegate vote… as is her right under current party rules. But at least be honest about it.)
9:37: Obama says that, with respect to superdelegates, the voice of the people as expressed in primaries and caucuses ought to count for something.
9:38: Obama is asked about a moment of crisis that helped defined him. He declines to pick a single moment, but mentions “rocky periods” in his youth where his life was off-course where he decided to take control of his life.
9:40: Clinton: everybody here knows I’ve lived through some crises and challenges (Hillary tries out another human moment) and I thank the American people for their prayers of support, but what I’ve been through pales in comparison to problems faced by ordinary Americans. Believes she’s been called by her faith and her upbringing to help secure the blessings she’s enjoyed for others. “Whatever happens, we’ll be fine… I just hope we’ll be able to say the same thing about the American people.”
All right, that’s it… the debate is over. Final thoughts:
Winner: Obama. Clearly. Hillary’s closing was very strong, Obama won nearly every other exchange.
See you next time.
Topics: Barack Obama, Debates, Democrats, Hillary Clinton |