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Obama and Clinton at the Compassion Forum, April 13 2008
By Bill | April 13, 2008 | Email This Post
On April 13, 2008, the two remaining candidates for the Democratic Presidential nomination took part in a forum in Pennsylvania which aired on CNN. The object of the night was to give the two candidates a chance to offer the nation their thoughts on various social issues, including climate change, the AIDS problem, poverty, human rights, and poverty. The event aired on CNN and was moderated by Campbell Brown and Newsweek’s Jon Meacham. This is a liveblog-style recap of the evening; I’m not a shill for either candidate, so while I don’t claim to have captured everything they said I hope this is an unbiased summary of the major points. I won’t be able to resist commenting, however, so where I do the remarks will be clearly indicated by italics. Minimal after-the-fact editing, so apologies for any grammatical mistakes.
John McCain was invited, but chose not to attend. Interesting decision… he probably feels like he has nothing to gain and everything to lose… and he’s probably right. McCain doesn’t often talk about his personal faith other than a general, nebulous way (which is his absolute prerogative) but he’s probably correct in thinking people will assume he’s the candidate they ought to support if they’re coming from a moral conservative base. (Not that he is, particularly, only that he probably seems that way in contrasts with either of his two likely Democratic opponents.) If they’re going to think that anyway, why risk saying something that can only turn them off?
Senator Clinton won the coin toss to decide the order the candidates would appear, and she elected to go first. Away we go… She’s wearing a mustard yellow blazer and scarf… it’s silly and trivial, but her campaign image folks didn’t do her any favors tonight.
- Jon Meacham leads off with a question asking Clinton about her criticism of Obama’s recent comments that some Americans have become “bitter” and as a result cling to guns and religion. Meacham asks Clinton what exactly is wrong with clinging to religion. Clinton “the Democratic party, to be very blunt about it, has been viewed as a party” that didn’t understand the faith and views of millions of Americans. She believes faith is an “anchor” to help people weather storms, but also a guide to show them the way forward. She says she will let Obama speak for himself because “he does an excellent job of that.” “I do think it raises a lot of concerns by people in Pennsylvania… because it seems in line with what we are so often charged with. … Elitist and patronizing.” Honestly, I find it a little hypocritical that a woman who’s went to Wellesley and Yale and then spent her adult life in Governor’s mansions, the White House, and the Senate, and who tried to resolve the health care problem behind closed doors calls would call anyone else elitist and patronizing.
- Campbell Brown says that Hillary Clinton has previously expressed a belief in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and asks her for some specific moments in which she has felt the presence of the Holy Spirit. “Ever since I was a child, I’ve felt the enveloping love and support of God, and had the experiences on many occasions [that I felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.] … Some of my struggles and challenges have been extremely public… for me my faith has given me the confidence to make decisions that were right for me whether anyone else agreed with me or not.” Clinton declines to cite specific moments, saying it would be “trivializing” an experience that spans her whole life.
- CNN opens the floor to a question from Joel Hunter, pastor of a 12,000 member church in Florida. He asks Clinton what her “first principles” are when it comes to making tough decisions. She calls life and death decisions “daunting,” and doesn’t “pretend to know” what she will do in every single place. She says her guidelines will come from “prayer and study”… Clinton doesn’t know the answers, but believes you have to “expose yourself to many points of view and then make the decision. Decisions aren’t things you just “make and put on a shelf,” but things you must constantly examine to see if you were correct. She references Iraq, saying she believes the thing to do for both America and Iraq is for us to withdraw, but realizes there will be “predictable and unpredictable” consequences, and part of being a leader is “living with the consequences.” I wonder how much active “studying” Clinton, or anyone else with her schedule, actually does. As for the Iraq question, I’ll just say that she’s right we’ll have to live with the consequences, but that I think her solution will make those consequences far worse than some alternatives.
- Meacham asks if she belives that life begins at conception. Clinton answers that she believes that “the potential for life begins at conception.” She tells the crowd that she’s a Methodist, and that her own denomination is struggling with the question. However, Clinton believes that the question isn’t limited to the life of the fetus, but that many other lives are involved and that the question is so complex it must be left to individuals rather than the government. She believes abortion ought to be rare, but that it ought to remain open and legal. IMHO, it’s very disingenuous of her to say that the decision should be left to the individual because it’s a complex issue. My take is she’s saying that because she thinks it softens her politics rather than coming right out and saying she believes women have the right to an abortion… which is of course her right to believe, but which may cost her votes.
- Brown asks Clinton if she would allow a person to voluntarily end their life. Clinton admits a challenging question, and references the Terry Schiavo case. Which doesn’t have anything to do with a person making a decision for themselves, but okay. “I don’t think that any of us is in a position to make that decision for families or individuals” but doesn’t think that the government should condone” wholesale assisted suicides. We need to “create a framework” that will make the decisions easier. “Create a framework?” I thought these decisions were too complex for the government?
- Brown mentions that even though this forum is about faith, many Americans feel that religion already has much too large a role in public life. Clinton respects that view, but says that “we want religion to be in the public square… but to do so in an inclusive and respectful way.”
- Rabbi Steve Gutow asks Clinton about China, mentioning the Tibet situation and their shipments of arms to Sudan. Gutow asks if Clinton believes our participation in the upcoming Olympics weakens America’s moral voice. Clinton mentions that she’s asked President Bush not to attend the opening ceremonies, which in her view would amount to an endorsement of the current government. The question is “how do we influence the Chinese government.” She believes that our current strategy toward China is “incoherent” and that we should do better, starting with not attending the opening ceremonies, believing that China would start to improve their actions rather than “lose face.”
- A member of the audience asks Clinton how her administration would work to improve access to drugs for impoverished people. “I believe that our government must do so much more” to make drugs available to those who need them. There’s a bold statement. She says that our pharmaceutical companies “do a lot of good” but that we need to work with them to get costs down and make generic drugs more available. She commends President Bush for his activities in this area, but thinks he as not gone far enough.
- Meacham asks Clinton why she believes that a caring God allows innocent people to suffer. She says “I don’t know, I can’t wait to ask him” and that she has “pondered it endlessly.” But to her that “in the face of suffering God calls us to respond…. For whatever reason it exists, its very existence is a call to action.” She believes Christian debate too often misses the problem of poverty and need, to which both the Old Testament prophets and Christ himself demanded we attend. In my opinion, she’s exactly right on that statement.
- Brown asks if Clinton has a favorite Bible story. Clinton: “Oh, I have so many of them,” saying that she heard many going up and that she and Bill read them to Chelsea. Her favorite depends on what’s going on her life at the time, but that she’s always been a great admirer of Esther, and she used to ask that that story be read to her over and over again.
- A question from Eboo Patel, and American Muslim from the Interfaith Youth Corps. He believes that Americans of all faiths and no faiths at all come together on the question of climate change and asks if we can do anything about it without impacting our standard of living. Clinton says that she thinks that we should voluntarily make small sacrifices that we wouldn’t notice rather than having some external force impact out standards of living. She cites as one example that she and Bill have switched to compact fluorescent bulbs and she doesn’t think that has impacted her standard of living. Apparently her previous standard of living included cold, icky green light. I understand the problem with incandescent bulbs, but what nobody is coming out and saying that the replacements for them are crap. It’s fine if your position is that we need to ignore that for the good of the planet, but don’t pretend CFLs provide as pleasing a light. Yes, they’re better than they used to be, but they’re still not GOOD.
- Lisa Sharon Harper, of NY Faith and Justice asks if Clinton would consider contributing US Troops to a completely humanitarian mission under the leadership of a foreign flag. Clinton says she believes we must get back to humanitarian work in a big way, putting kids to work, but also eliminating TB and AIDS and particularly addressing women’s health, which needs great attention. The US has previously been seen as a leader in this area, but we have lost that leadership role in the last seven years. She contradicts herself by going on to praise Bush for his reaction to the tsunami in Indonesia. She thinks there are a number of ways the military can show the humanitarian face of America to the world and help rebuild our moral authority. She never really answers the question, but the answer should be “Put the American military under a foreign flag? No, why the hell would we?”
- Meacham asks pointedly: “Do you believe God wants you to be President?” Laughter from the audience. Clinton says she doesn’t presume to know anything about God.
Clinton’s time is up. A quick transition, and Obama takes the chair.
- Campbell Brown asks Obama about his recent comments about “bitter” people clinging to guns and religion. Obama says “first of all, scripture talks about clinging to what’s good” There you have it, Obama says guns are good! but admits that his words were clumsy. What he says he was trying to say is that when people are hit with tough economic times, what they have left are things like religion and family traditions, which aren’t bad things. He believes people are trying to misconstrue his words. “I’m a devout Christian,” and started his public life working with churches “in the shadow of steel plants that had closed” and thinks this is an example of how the political debate can distract people from the central question, which is how we can create a just and fair society. There’s no two ways about it, it was a dumb thing to say. He says that on the contrary, his aim over the years is to get the Democratic party to return to churches, to link faith with their activities, and to appeal to evangelicals. A cynic might view that as a calculated strategy might win votes rather than a natural outreach of Obama’s personal beliefs.
- Meacham asks if Obama believes that God intervenes in the affairs of nations. Obama does, but thinks his methods are too mysterious to be clearly understood. Rather than worrying about specific events he tries to make sure he’s acting by the precepts of his faith. Believes if he is “his brother’s keeper,” he will be doing his part to move God’s plan forward, whatever that plan is.
- Samuel Rodriguez asks about abortion. Obama says he “absolutely” believes that we can find common ground. Believes it includes admission that there’s a moral dimension to abortion which “those of us who are pro choice” haven’t recognized often enough. Obama believes we should acknowledge that people of good faith can exist on both sides of the debate. Regardless of your position, he thinks the one thing we can agree on is that we want to minimize the number of abortions that are done. Believes in “age appropriate” education which must include contraception, and also teaching children about the “sacredness of sex.” Admits that at some point, though, there may be irreconcilable differences, and that at that point pro life people should continue to try to change the law and pro choice people must continue to try to maintain the legal right to an abortion. Applause from the audience. Sacredness of sex, I love it… I wonder if he’ll mention tantric sex next. Paging Sting, white courtesy phone!
- Asked if he believes life begins at conception, Obama flatly says he doesn’t know. “What I do know is that there’s something extraordinarily powerful” about a potential life, and that has a moral weight to it that must be acknowledged.
- Brown asks if Obama believes it’s morally acceptable for someone to choose to end their own life. Obama believes we must be “very careful,” and thinks everyone should have a living will. He thinks the ultimate choice should be made by the individual, the family and the doctor, but doesn’t think that we should empower doctors to end life. Believes that terminally ill people should have access to medicine that will “ease their pain” but distinguishes that from euthanasia, even in the case where that treatment may shorten their life. Weak answer. Stand up for the ability of people to end their own lives or don’t, but don’t give them the tools and then say you’re not saying they should use them.
- Frank Page (?) of the Southern Baptist Convention, asks Obama a poorly framed question about True Love Waits, an abstinence based and faith based program to reduce pregnancy and AIDS. Obama says that he believes we should use the “best” and “scientifically sound” approach, and that abstinence education is important but also that contraception is important. He believes a number of other things are important as well, such as the availability of antiviral drugs and the status of women. Applause from the audience. I’m sorry, but Obama’s talking out of both sides of his face, here. He’s clearly more in favor of contraceptive-based education than abstinence-based, but he doesn’t want to alienate religious right voters (which whom he’s already on shaky ground) by saying so. Again, take a damn position and defend it.
- Meacham asks Obama about his statement that if his daughters made a mistake he wouldn’t want them “punished with a baby.” Obama says that if his daughters were to have a baby at 12 or 13, we statistically know that the prospects for that baby are less than ideal.
- Brown asks Obama what he would tell his daughters if they asked if God really created the world in six days. Obama says that he believes God created the universe, but the six days referenced in the Bible are not six 24 hour days as we understand them. The story itself is “essentially, fundamentally” true, but that our reading of the text may not be a full reading. He goes on to say that he does believe in evolution, but that he doesn’t see that as incompatible with Christianity. He says that science strengthens, rather than weakens his faith.
- Richard Cizik, of the National Association of Evangelicals, asks Obama about the struggle between faith and science and refers to “Creation Care,” which I had not heard of before, and which immediately makes me want to roll my eyes. And I’m a creationist! in particular when it comes to climate change. Obama says his faith demands he take an intergenerational view in that we are borrowing the planet from our descendants and we must do the responsible thing and take action now rather than leaving the problem for future citizens of the planet. Having faith means believing that we believe this planet and this earth extends beyond us, and that religion can “bolster our desire” to make the kind of sacrifices we need to take.
- Meacham asks Obama how Rev. Wright brought him closer to God. Obama says he was raised in a “nonreligious” home… his mother was “spiritual” but somewhat distrustful of organized religion. He said that when he was organizing churches, some of the pastors suggested he’d be more effective if he actually went to a church. He visited around and says Rev. Wright spoke directly to the “social gospel” and that he eventually joined his church. Obama says rather than “spiritual adviser” Wright was simply his pastor, and one with whom he occasionally disagreed, some of his comments being “offensive.” But none of that detracts from “the incredible church community” that this is. I’m with Obama on this one. Any thinking person who’s spent any time in church eventually walks out shaking their heads and thinking their pastor was really half baked today. Ask any American Catholic who’s ever used contraception.
- Brown says that, even though Obama is a Christian, he’s had more exposure to Islam than most Americans. Obama says that he lived in Indonesia, but that the first school he went to was Catholic, after which he went to a public school. Says that the brand of Islam being practiced in Indonesia at the time was a very tolerant one, and that the country was explicitly secular rather than oppressive. What it taught him is that “Islam can be a part of the modern world” and that it can work with Christian and Jewish and Buddhist faiths. He believes that in general people of the Muslim world are decent people and that a clash of civilizations is sometimes “overheated rhetoric.” Not sure what I think about that closing statement, but I don’t think the insinuation that Obama is somehow a radical Islamic sleeper agent is worth dignifying at all.
- A questioner from the audience Jim ??? of the Sojourners organization asks Obama if he will commit to the goal of cutting poverty in half in ten years. Obama does “with great humility, as it is a very ambitious goal.” Props to Obama for this. When I heard the question, I thought: “there’s no way he picks up this gauntlet” mostly because it just isn’t possible, and he knows it. It’s a noble aim, though. Let’s see what he does if he gets the chance.
- David Gushee asks Obama if there’s justification for policies that permit physical and mental cruelty for people in our country. Obama says that our position should be “we do not torture, period” and that should include renditions… “we do not subcontract torture.” The reason for this, Obama says, is not only that torture does not provide good information, but that it undermines American politics and troops.
- Brown asks Obama whether or not religion has too much of a place in American life. Obama says that we’ve “fallen into a false debate.” On the one hand, you’ve got the position “sometimes by elements of my own party” that any involvement of religion violates the separation of church and state, while on the other you have a group that thinks religion should inform every aspect of public policy. He asks that we imagine Dr. King removing his religious references at his speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial. He believes that people of religious faith must guard against self-righteousness, but that they have a right to use their faith as an underpinning of their arguments.
The forum ends abruptly, not even at an hour boundary.
It was an interesting couple of hours. It was refreshing to hear some out of the ordinary questions, though both Clinton and Obama naturally tried to turn some questions back to their scripted responses at times. Still, it was nice to get a sense of what the candidates think, and I think we came as close as we ever will tonight.
How did they do? Obama continues to be more inspiring, but Clinton came off far, far better than she often does. She seemed like a real, thoughtful human being tonight, rather than the manipulative ice queen she often projects (Hey, hey, I’m not saying she is or that it’s fair… but that that impression of her exists is undeniable.) All in all, even though it wasn’t a debate, I’d say Clinton probably helped herself more than did Obama tonight.
You can read CNN’s version of the report on the debate here.
Next up: A regular-style debate on April 16, 2008 between Clinton and Obama, airing on ABC. Check here for a liveblog. See you then!
Topics: Democrats |
April 13th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Thank you, my young friend, for informing this old and retired journalism professor who is a long way from a broadband connection. You did a fine job, and I appreciate your efforts and heartfelt commentary.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Wow Mike, thank you very much for the kind words. If I had known a professional would be reading I would have taken more time to edit.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I personally am disappointed that either Clinton or Obama agreed to participate in this forum. I think that it only allows organized religion’s heavy-handed guidance to creep further into the political process. We need to back up from all of this, to come together not as members of one religion or another but as members of the human race. We need to argue from a place of logic and compassion and not from dogma. The founders has separation of church and state correct and whether Clinton has a favorite Bible story or Obama believes in a literal 6 day creation should not be knowledge that either is compelled to share. There religious beliefs should have no impact on my voting decisions; their views on foreign trade policy and health care should.