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Joe Biden - Sarah Palin Vice Presidential debate, October 2, 2008
By Bill | October 2, 2008 | Email This Post
Hello all, and welcome to my liveblog summary of the vice presidential debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin. I’m very curious to see what happens tonight. I liked John McCain, or thought I did, before this campaign started, but he’s really been losing me. The Palin pick was part of it; I just don’t understand it at all. Oh, I get the strategy, but I think he could’ve found someone much more compelling to pull it off. I’m willing to be conviced, however, we’ll see what she does tonight.
As for Biden.. he’s been a public figure so long I think we all know what we’re going to get with him. Even if you don’t like the guy, he can be a lot of fun when he starts talking off script. I hope we get some of that tonight. I doubt he can say anything to change the vote one way or the other, even if he completely tanks. Palin on the other hand… she’s got to be perfect. Even that may not be enough, but if she’s not, it’s over.
The debate will be moderated by Gwen Ifill, she of the recent book controversy, which is much ado about nothing.
Gwen opens up with a brief statement, telling us that each candidate will have 90 seconds to answer questions. Ninety whole seconds? How can they possibly fill that kind of time?
Biden and Palin come out on stage… she’s walking faster than he is. Nerves? Aggression? Eagerness? Youth? I wonder.
Gwen’s first question is whether the activities over the bail-out bill in the House this week represents the best of Washington or the worst of Washington? Biden describes what a tough position Congress is in, having to fix mistakes committed by the Bush administration over the last eight years. He goes on to describe what Barack Obama thinks would constitute a good bailout plan. Palin responds immediately by saying that if you want to know how bad things are, all you have to do is talk to parents at soccer games - a mistake, I think, she needs to prove she’s something other than a soccer (or hockey) mom.
Biden references the line from McCain a couple weeks ago, about the fundamentals of the economy being strong, citing that as proof McCain is out of touch. Palin jumps to McCain’s defense, offering the explanation that the strength to which he was referring was the American worker. My take: no, he wasn’t. It was a weak excuse when he offered it, and it hasn’t got better with age.
Point: Biden
The next question is about the mortgage crisis. Palin blames dishonest lenders, who talked people into mortgages they couldn’t afford - apparently the American people are incapible of math. She drops a “Joe Six-Pack” and hockey mom reference… trying to highlight Obama’s supposed elitism, I suppose. Biden responds by attacking McCain over his support for deregulation, mentioning a quote that McCain says his goal is to bring deregulation to health care. That’s a rather effective point given the situation we’re in now.
Point: Biden
I need to start counting how many times Palin uses the phrase “Darn Right!” Ten minutes in, at the count is up to at least three so far.
Biden says Palin is not responding to the charge about deregulation, and Palin responds by lecturing Biden. This could get fun if she keeps it up… she’s trying to provoke him, I think. He’ll take the bait, too.
Gwen asks Biden about raising taxes… Biden responds that, where he comes from, that’s known as being fair, that people who have more should pay more. Biden claims that McCain wants to give corporate tax breaks while ignoring the middle class. Palin accuses Biden of espousing “redistribution of wealth,” and says that he’s ignoring the problem of small businesses paying more taxes. She also whips out the line where Biden says it’s patriotic to pay more taxes… I assume he’s sorry he ever said that.
Point: Even
Gwen asks Palin if she would like to explain McCain’s health care plan. She explains that McCain wants to give everyone a $5k tax credit to buy insurance, whereas Obama would let the government take over health care, saying that with the way government runs things, we all ought to be excited by that. She also sais McCain will eliminate artificial boundaries between states, allowing nationwide competition - imagine that, a Republican ignorning tates’ rights. :) Biden responds that McCain’s tax credit is actually paid for by more taxes paid by you… that you’ll be paying $12k for a $5k benefit, which he calls the “absolute bridge to nowhere.”
Point: Biden
Gwen asks what promises, given the economy, will each campaign be unable to keep? Biden says they’ll have to slow down their committment to doubling foreign aid. Palin says that the nice thing about running with McCain is that he doesn’t tell different audiences to different things. She then turns the subject to energy, saying Obama voted for an energy plan that gave tax breaks to oil companies, whereas she as governor had to take those back. Gwen again asks Palin to answer the question, and Palin says that in five weeks she hasn’t made a lot of promises, but that she’s sure McCain hasn’t made any promises she can’t keep. Biden salutes Palin for imposing a windfall profits tax, saying that’s exactly what Obama wants to do, and he hopes she can talk McCain into doing the same.
Point: Biden
Gwen asks about climate change. Palin says that she doesn’t want to argue about what causes climate change, but coming from an arctic state she understands the problem and that we need to fix it. Biden says that you can’t fix something if you don’t understand the problem. He also cites the problem of China’s coal use, suggesting that we invest in clean coal technology and export it.
Point: Biden
Gwen asks if Biden supports granting same-sex benefits: “absolutely.” And says that in an Obama-Biden administration that there will be no distinction between homosexuals and heterosexuals under the Constitution. Palin says she wouldn’t support the expansion of benefits if they would go towards the weaking of traditional marriage, but that we shouldn’t construe that answer to mean she wouldn’t be “tolerant” of other relationships. She’ll tell Americans “straight up” that she doesn’t support changing the definition of marriage. Asked directly if he supports gay marriage, Biden says “no.” Nor does Palin.
Point: None, really.Both of them don’t want to seem anti-gay, but neither will come to the logical conclusion and grant homosexuals equal rights. I suspect it’s because Palin thinks homosexuality is wrong, and Biden thinks it’s an untenable political position. Either way, they’re trying to have it both ways. Either support homosexual rights or don’t, but do it clearly.
Gwen asks which is the biggest threat, a nuclear Iraq or an unstable Pakistan. Biden says that one significant thing is that Pakistan already has nuclear weapons, and that while a nuclear Iran is a terrible thing, if an attack comes it will come from the hills from Afghanistan and Pakistan, and that McCain is dead wrong when he believes that Iraq is the center of the war on terror. Palin says that Petraues and Al Queda agree that Iraq is the central battleground, never mind what McCain thinks. I swear Palin is saying “nucular” ala George Bush. She goes on to attack Obama for suggesting we meet with the leadership of Iran.
Point: Tie
Palin says that a two-state solution is the answer to the Israei/Palestenian problem, but that Israel is our best ally in the region and that we owe it to the Israelis to support them. Biden says “no one” in the United States Senate has been a better friend to Israel that Joe Biden, and that while he gives Rice credit for trying to pull things together at the eleventh hour, Bush’s policy in the middle east has been an “abject failure.” Palin says that she doesn’t think that it’s been an abject failure, but she’s so glad to hear that they agree on Israel. (Jaz hands!) Biden scores points by saying that if there’s a difference between Bush’s policy and McCain’s policy, he doesn’t know what it is.
Point: Biden
Biden throws out a statistic that we’ve spent more in three weeks in Iraq than we have in seven years in Afghanstian. Really? I’m floored. That’s a fantastic point. I’m not anti-Iraq-war, but that’s ridiculous.
Asked how a Biden administration would differ from an Obama administration, Biden says he would carry forward Obama’s policies, going on to detail what some of those policies are, saying that he agrees with Obama on every major initiative. Palin says “of course” we don’t agree 100% on everything, but that she would continue “the good work” he is committed to.
Point: Tie
Palin mentiions several times when Biden is critical of records, that for such a forward-looking set of candidates, they do too much finger pointing backwards (which is a ridiculous thing to say.)
Asked about the vice-presidency, Palin goes on to detail the constitutional responsibilities. Biden says he’s had an extensive conversation with Obama about his responsibilities, and while it will partially be to use his influence in the Senate, but that while Obama will be President, he’ll have input into every major decision, even if he disagrees. He goes on to call Chaney the most dangerous vice president we’ve ever had, calling his notion that the VP is part of the legislative branch “bizarre.”
Point: Biden, big-time. That was the best description of what someone would do as VP that I’ve ever heard.
Final question: can you think of a single issue in which you had to change a long-held belief? Biden: yes, that the ideology of a judge matters, not just their qualifications, citing specifically Robert Bork. Palin: says she may have “caved” on some budgets that she should have vetoed, but she went forward because she didn’t have the support… but says that she hasn’t had to compromise on anything major. (Really?)
Biden adopted a brilliant tact tonight, directing his attacks toward McCain rather than Palin, thereby not seeming meanspirited to her, but still making his points. If you look at my summary, above, in my judgement Biden clearly won on points. However, I expect perception will be completely diffferent… Palin showed up well. She didn’t make as good a case for Biden, but popular perception will be that she did quite well. She actually did… but I still got all image, no substance. Her style drives me crazy… it’s like the Lancome lady from MadTV a few years ago.
Topics: Politics |